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Tuesday 3 April 2012

The $64000 question, what motivates a low carb anti ?

“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.” Voltaire
Great low carb myths Depression !
 
Over at my favourite diabetes forum diabetes.co.uk, the largest bun fight for some time revolved around depression. The thread ‘Who has had depression due to low carbing’ started in a positive way with forum members stating depression was not a problem. In fact the opposite was reported. Some people had stated lowcarbing had reduced their depression. Great news I thought, the old lowcarbing causes depression chestnut has been used many times by anti lowcarbers, and they don’t come more anti than carbsrock. Formally known as SarahQ an ex forum mod, and fond of stating “I fill my face with carbs and I will burn Bernstein’s books to supplement my winter fuel bill” could not resist lighting the blue touch paper.

Placing a link to a study about a bloke in a shed and half a dozen forced fed rats, who went down with depression, OK I jest, I didn’t even go to the link, I have seen too many studies reporting the force feeding of mice and rats, with extremely high amounts of food, they would never nomally eat, and the ‘brains’ wonder why the poor creatures croaked. These sort of trials have little or no relevance to human beings living in the real world, but it keeps a lot of people in a job. The bent science can be used by big pharma and junk food companies and the anti lowcarbers to rubbish lowcarbing. What are the motives of these people ? Well for big pharma and the global food mob, it’s profit, pure and simple. They don’t care who they kill, as long as it’s slowly and maximum gain can be extracted. There is no money in fit and healthy people, and there is no profit in dead people, the trick is keeping people alive, well sort of. The $64000 question, what motivates a low carb anti ?

Over the years a pattern has emerged. A typical low carb anti has been a diabetic for a number of years. All state they have their diabetes under control. All tell us they are happy with their healthcare professionals. Many are insulin users, all have test strips, and some of the most voracious anti low carbers are using pumps. I am thinking of phoenix, SarahQ ex mod, Jopar ex mod, Stuboy ex mod, and the sadly departed Kegstore. Most of the anti’s have good knowledge and experience of controlling diabetes. All have all the tools for good control, let’s call them the ‘haves’. So who are the ‘have nots’

The newly diagnosed have little if any knowledge of good diabetes control. Obviously no experience. Usually they are given abysmal dietary advice. Very often nil meds, the lucky ones get Metformin, a useful drug, but won’t ever make much impact on a high HbA1c number. Many are told not to test BG, and very few type two’s, (the majority of newly diagnosed diabetics) get prescribed test strips. Unfortunately there are many ‘have nots’ They have no experience, no knowledge and no tools to control their diabetes.

Well it seems logical to me, the best people to help the ‘have nots’ are the people that fit into the ‘haves’ group. The aforementioned ‘haves’ could be shining beacons to all diabetics. They would appreciate they had all the breaks in controlling diabetes, all the tools, and all the know how. This of course is not what we have seen over the last fours years. They help very few people, they choose to ignore the fact, many have no option other than to reduce drastically the foods that elevate blood glucose levels to highly dangerous numbers. They could have taken a neutral stance and kept to their own. But what do we see on a daily basis. With almost obvious glee, they post links to derogatory or out of date carbohydrate information. The lowcarb antis know, when carb intake is drastically reduced, good fats become a major part of a diabetics diet, so they find lot’s of links vilifying fats. They have plenty of links up their sleeves, for the spreading of fear and poor and outdated information, and they push this dross at every opportunity.

I have been accused of many things and bullying many times. I see myself as bullying the bullies. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. I am fortunate and are one of the ‘haves’ call me what you like, it means little to me. I know what I am, and I will never be guilty of spreading fear and alarm to people, that through no fault of their own became a diabetic. Who are disadvantaged, who have very few tools in the armoury to fight diabetes, who have been given very poor advice from people who should or do know better. As always the people mentioned here are welcome to come over and debate this post. The anti’s stifle good debate at very opportunity, and in Kens days, made sure that their main opposition was banned. The anti’s have so much to say on the forum, but will never post here, well not with a known forum name. It goes without saying, I am appalled at the actions of a few, who never stop spreading fear and misinformation at every opportunity. I do of course realise, that many type ones, and other insulin users, and non lowcarbers, put great effort into helping all diabetics. They are on a mission to help all diabetics, as are the members of this blog.


Eddie

23 comments:

Lowcarb team member said...

Great post Eddie! I often wonder what advice they would give for the following scenario.

A type 2 is diagnosed with an HbA1c of the order 10.5 – 12.5%. He is given the usual NHS dietary advice and starts on a medication regime. However, even with triple drug medication the maximum reduction is of the order 1.5 – 2.5%). After an interval of time, he is taken off the medication and put on insulin.

What do we know about diabetics on insulin? Well for type 1 diabetics from the NHS Statistics for 2008 2009:
% of Type 1 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 7.50% = 71.4.
% of Type 1 diabetics with HbA1c greater than 10.0% = 33.6.

Assuming that the motivation, difficulties, etc of using insulin is similar for type 2s as it is for type 1s the prognosis for our type 2 is bleak.

What advice would you give to such an individual? Answers on the back of a postcard.

John

Lowcarb team member said...

As you say John a probable bleak end game. One must also consider the amount of metabolic syndromes the type one, well controlled diabetic, often escapes. Insulin resistance is not a problem for many, and that alone can lead to many complications. Insulin is not a get out of jail free card. Excess insulin brings as many health problems as high blood glucose. Then there are problems of financial cost, life insurance problems, loss of driving license and ramifications regarding employment. The list goes on.

For those that can, and those that are prepared to make the effort, the correct diet for a diabetic will always blow drugs into the weeds.

Eddie

Anonymous said...

It's game, set and match to low carb on the forum. The only people that can't see it are the bonkers brigade.

Anne

tess said...

doggone it, i was hoping you were going to answer that question! :-) i wonder that, too -- why the anti's are such haters....

Lowcarb team member said...

I believe the vehemence of the clique may be traced to the following factors.

Employment/former employment/(relative of) as a HCP
It must be particularly galling to discover that much of what you (or your relative) had learned was actually worsening the health of diabetics. To be publicly admonished must have been even more humiliating.

Type 1 Diabetics
It must be particularly galling to discover the ease with which low carbing Type 2s achieve HbA1c in the 5-6% range. They even attacked Fergus, a Type 1, who, with low carbing, regularly achieves HbA1c of 4.7%.

Sedentary Type 2 Diabetics
It must be particularly galling to discover that nobody is listening to the endlessly repeated mantra of portion control. Simply because most of us do not have a sedentary lifestyle and could not exist on their stated calorific intake.

Ex-Moderators
It must be particularly galling to discover that that everyone is laughing at their delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and omnipotence.

John

Lowcarb team member said...

Hi Tess thanks for your comments.

"doggone it, i was hoping you were going to answer that question! :-) i wonder that, too -- why the anti's are such haters...."

What makes anyone a hater ?

What makes someone that has it all, want to frighten and spread fear and alarm to the information disadvantaged, the poor, the have nots. Maybe these people gain some sort of strength and a feeling of superiority over people less fortunate than themselves. Maybe life has dealt them too many bad hands. In a perfect world the strong would look after weak, unfortunately this world is far from perfect.

Eddie

Anonymous said...

All too often these are sad individuals who attain what they perceive as stature and respect by either barbed or long polemical posts. They necessarily oppose what is obviously sensible and argue from a standpoint that ensures they get a lot of attention. They are like precocious children and, like kids, have easily bruised egos.

In a way, Disraeli's famous description of Gladstone applies: "A sophisticated rhetorician, inebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity"

Basically - sad, silly, immature little show-offs who dominate the stage whenever possible.

Apart from Sid of course, he's just a twat!

Ray

Anonymous said...

Goodness me ed - isn't this a case of pot calling kettle black. You just do not get it do you !!

Lowcarb team member said...

Good to see Carbophile, (reports of his demise have been greatly exaggerated) blog is back posting comments. Carbo, would you believe “A simple carb loving person with diabetes, struggling with managing the condition and living a normal life” is yet another fired and disgraced forum mod at diabetes.co.uk, approved the following comment today.

“It does make me laugh when latest posts on the Bile Blog refer to a clique on DCUK. Wasn't he part of a clique there that rode roughshod over posters? The clique he is referring to are not bully boys like he was.

There is a new clique emerging to take Edie's place but they have a more subtle approach and although they push what you should be eating according to the gospel of low carb, they are reasonable at times if they are confronted with an alternative view..”

I like Carbo, he offers a sanctuary for the carb and medication addicted , the idiotic Dietition and Director of the BDA, and other anti lowcarb miscreants.

As for the new clique, they are doing a great job. And without the Stalinist Kenny boy, backing up the carb addicted, will continue to do a great job.

Keep up the good work. You know it makes sense, why fight it !

Eddie

Anonymous said...

Read Carbophiles blog. Nothing but hate. Almost no links to diabetes information. A few links to recipes, result in few or no comments. A blog dedicated to abusing lowcarbers and active diabetics. The bitter irony his idiotic readers call this the bile blog. These people are living in a world of their own. So much for high carb and drugs.

Anne

Lowcarb team member said...

The was very little trouble between the different factions on the DCUK forum, that was until the advent of a certain dietician with ludicrous assertions that lowcarb would lead to scurvy,constipation, osteoporosis etc. She also said that without potatoes in our diet we would be lacking Vit C Folic acid and seretonin, of course the anti's agreed with her.

Graham

Lowcarb team member said...

Phoenix a long standing anti posted on this thread in the non low carb forum;

Re: why i dont low carb
by phoenix » June 22nd, 2009, 2:47 pm

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8913#p83982

Graham

Anonymous said...

Good link Graham - so Phoenix and Sid Bonkers both don't low carb and both had/have heart problems. Poor old Kegstore didn't low carb and is now sadly dead.

This is pretty much a post for why you SHOULD low carb.

I particularly liked Sid Bonker's quote - "I am defiantly not a 'vehement anti low poster'". By which I think he means 'definitely' (but to be honest it's always a problem figuring our what he means).

But, good lord, if Sid isn't I'd like to see someone who is...

Lowcarb team member said...

I am becoming very concerned for Sid (portion control) Bonkers.

Back in June 2009 he states “I still eat cereal for breakfast but only 30grams” now it’s 15 grams.

At this rate of dietary regression he will soon be on 1 gram of cornflakes for breakfast. Where does portion control end ? A zero food diet !


Eddie

Anonymous said...

The live link to why I dont low carb is very revealing. Kidney problems-heart problems-digestion problems. This individual can’t low carb, if only they stated the facts in their forum signature.

Anonymous said...

QUOTE:
doggone it, i was hoping you were going to answer that question! :-) i wonder that, too -- why the anti's are such haters....

Not that I agree that those who dont worship at the church of Taubes are haters but one only has to read the comments from low carbers on this blog to know why they have no time for Eddie and co

Lowcarb team member said...

"The live link to why I dont low carb is very revealing. Kidney problems-heart problems-digestion problems. This individual can’t low carb, if only they stated the facts in their forum signature"

You are wrong, this is a text book case for why lowcarbing works. Both peer revued medical papers and anecdotal evidence shows time and time again, a big reduction in carbs leads to better cholesterol numbers. Not that I believe total cholesterol numbers are a reliable indication for heart attack etc. It is the individual component numbers that have to be looked at. Lowcarbing increases LDL, but HDL also goes up to counter-act. It is almost always the case triglycerides numbers plummet. Trig numbers are now seen as a far better indictor for future heart disease than total cholesterol numbers. By enlightened healthcare pro’s.

It is true a person with reduced kidney function has to very careful with protein intake. Again, a big drop in carbs usually improves kidney function. Anyone remember Peppi ? He was told he life would be cut short by his Doctor due to kidney failure, he dumped the carbs, kept his protein level and upped the fats. Result, his Doctor was amazed when his kidney function improved 100% in a few months.

We all need fats to live and that’s a fact. This does not mean us lowcarbers are eating blocks of lard and fat laden chops. Flax, olive oil, avocado, seeds and nuts will keep most people going strong, even if that cannot tolerate lots of dairy products or red meat etc.

I believe almost any diabetic will benefit from a low carb diet, very few can’t lowcarb, but many choose not to, in short they do not want to low carb. That’s cool with me, each to their own. It’s when they rubbish lowcarb that sticks in my craw. DONE PROPERLY lowcarb is safe, sustainable for life and infinitely more effective ]than any type two drugs for reducing HbA1c. The benefits for insulin users are also enormous as reported on forums on a daily basis all over the world. Less carbs=less insulin, less insulin saves money and leads to far better control. Bernstein calls it the power of small numbers and he is spot on. Insulin is not only a growth hormone, it is also the aging hormone.


Eddie

Lowcarb team member said...

"Not that I agree that those who dont worship at the church of Taubes are haters but one only has to read the comments from low carbers on this blog to know why they have no time for Eddie and co"

I bet you worship at the church of Ancel Keys, good luck. As for comments on this blog, are you confusing us with Carbo's mob ?

Eddie

Anonymous said...

Just looked at the phoenix link same old scare stories. I reversed my NAFLD with a high fat low carb diet, my cholesterol levels have never been better, my BMI is now in the normal range for the first time in over 15 years.

Alan

Lowcarb team member said...

"Not that I agree that those who dont worship at the church of Taubes are haters but one only has to read the comments from low carbers on this blog to know why they have no time for Eddie and co"

Or you could read the comments from this blog to see the real anti low carb bile!

Graham

Lowcarb team member said...

Today is exactly four years since my T2 diagnosis, of those four years I've spent three and half low carbing. Given what phoenix has said in her "why I don't low carb thread" I should be seeing some of the complications that she has shown concerns about right! Well the answer is no since diagnosis diagnosis my lipids have improved:

HDL 1.62 now 2.04, LDL 3.27 now 2.95, Trigs 0.65 now 0.52, Total/HDL ratio 3.2 now 2.6.

Kidney's, given that I'm 68 now you would expect some age related deterioration but the reverse is the case.

Creatinine 70 GFR >60
Now
Creatinine 60 GFR >90

A1c 7% now 6.2

All other bloods tests in normal range.

Do you reckon I could improve on this by following phoenix's 45 to 65% cals from carbs?
For my calorie needs that would equate to 393g to 525g carbs a day!

Graham

Anonymous said...

Quote by Eddie:
Back in June 2009 he states “I still eat cereal for breakfast but only 30grams” now it’s 15 grams.

Back in 2009 I was on insulin so hardly relevant, now I eat between 16g and 18g of corn flakes when I eat cerial and oddly enough in the UK Kellogs puts exactly 17g in a packet of corn flakes in their variety pack, so whats amusing there Eddie.

Oh and I've never posted that I eat 15g of cereal but your used to twisting the truth and making things up aren't you?

$id

Lowcarb team member said...

Sid I am mortified, please accept my profuse and profound apology. I am self flagellating, as I type, by way of penance. Please believe me when I say, I am not normally into Sado-Masacism. But as you like to say, we are all different.

You did not say 15 grams of cereal. But you did say on the ‘make me mad thread at d.co.uk December 2nd, 2011, 7:57 am’ “I eat Cornflakes almost every morning, 16g measured out on my scales, that’s 13.5g of carbohydrate plus a little for the splash of semi skimmed” You have referred to 16 and 17 grams of cornflakes on other threads.

Now, most of the people I know, consider cornflakes to be a cereal, I appreciate 1 gram must be the difference between life and death, when a man is on your level of daily calories, but for most people it’s neither here nor there.


Eddie