Long term clique member, and lowcarb anti, the forum Gibberologist aka Jopar is off on another bender today. Most of the time this week she has stuck to implying type diabetics brought it on themselves, or they are liars. When the members tired of that, (thread chopping mod editing etc) she implied lowcarbers could not count ( more post deletion, chopping and editing) So, an average week for Jopar.
Nobhead aka the weasel, wound up the lowcarbers, implying one of the forum’s most high profile lowcarbers, was sending us information. He was saved from having to give an apology, with more post deletion, chopping and editing. Are you seeing a familiar pattern here ? The same bunch derailing, causing animosity and generally making complete fools of themselves. It was ever thus ! For four years, these chumps aided and abetted by a few others, have done their best to shut down almost every thread, that highlighted their lack of knowledge, and their promotion of a diet that has lead to the death of millions of diabetics across the world.
So the Gibberologists latest words of wisdom. Bare in mind this was aimed at a diet only type two diabetic.
If you eating a high fat content, or something like Pasta, Rice Pizza, pastry etc, then these foods can still be impacting on the blood glucose hours later, so at the 1 hour, 2 hour mark everything longs fine, 3 or 4 hours it raises the BG...
A switched on member stated.
I can absolutely assure you that a T2 on diet only like dawnmc will NOT look fine at 1 or 2 hours if she eats pizza, rice pastry or pasta in anything other than tiny quantities!
The Gibberologist stated.
Foods that I mentioned take a long time to adsorb into the system... This type of spiking is called the 'Pizza' effect and can catch the insulin user out... At an hour mark could suffer a hypo, 2 hour mark everything looks fine but test at 3 or 4 hours, the bloods levels start rising!
So yep if the 4 hour test is the only test being done (the OP doesn't make this clear) it's a bit pointless, but combined with a 1 or 2 hour test it could tell a story...
A switched on member stated.
The OP is a diet only T2!! Read the profile!
Other said.
Don't quite understand why you have brought insulin into a discussion with a diet only T2.
Pneu tried to restore calm, and save Jopar from herself, but subtle hints don’t register with the likes of Jopar.
Ask yourself this question, how long would a type two diet only diabetic last, if he wondered over to the type one, or pump forum, spouting total and dangerous nonsense. Not very long is the answer for sure. The big question of course is, why have a few individuals, who know nothing about controlling type two diabetes, often with test strips, insulin, pumps etc etc been allowed to cause so much trouble. Do these defenders of a diet, that is totally inappropriate for so many, feel they are assisting the general diabetes community. No, not only have they lost the argument completely, as Jopar and the weasel have proved this week, they have also lost the plot.
Eddie
THREAD LOCKED AT 2.30pm Now why am I not surprised !
32 comments:
Quote from jopar.
"Take for exapmple, 2 egg cheese omelette with a dash of milk, would be considered negotiable for a carb count, so theoretically I shouldn't need an insulin injection to cover it, but in fact I do need to inject to cover this, purely because of the ratio of protein/fat I'm having and interestingly the calculation of insulin needed works out even more than if I eaten 20g's of carbs!"
Im a type 2 and an omelette does not reflect anywhere near 20g of carbs on my meter, why can't she get it into her head we have a completely different disease.
Scott
Locked by peneu? (peanut brain)
Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods.
Oh, what a shame for this poor person :
http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/type-1-diabetes/63773-big-hike-a1c-low-carb-diet
"Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods."
Total bullshit, omelettes have very little effect on my BG compared to 20g of carbs. A slice of bergen bread which is about 12g raises my BG higher and takes a lot longer to come back down again.
Peanut brain! compared to you an advanced species.
Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods."
Complete shite just like Jopar.
Locked by peneu? (peanut brain) -
You do not deserve to lick his shoes.
What light of day isn't today?
"Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods."
Your so wrong pal as is jopar. A quote from phoenix "I find protein affects my BG hugely."
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5169&start=15#p39692
As a T2 for four years my experience is exactly the opposite of phoenix, protein has a minimal effect on my BG.
Think I might do an omelette test tomorrow will post results.
Graham
"Oh, what a shame for this poor person :"
Same thread different person:
"Not just low carb, if you dont increase the fat you will eat too much protein. It is often referred to as low carb but it really should be called LCHF, and some do call it that. You have to eat more fat when going low carb or the added protein can elevate the Bg. Fat does not raise bg but carb and protein does. Fat stops hunger and stops overeating, it encourages leptin. High Fat, very low carb diet reduced my A1C dramatically and caused a 35 pound drop in weight, without hunger, because I increased the fat."
http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/type-1-diabetes/63773-big-hike-a1c-low-carb-diet-2
Graham
"Same thread different person:"
Fats the way to do it!
Anonymous said...
Locked by peneu? (peanut brain)
Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods.
------
Please if your going to insult me then at-least get your facts right (I did not lock the thread)and have the balls to post with a user name rather than being another spineless sack of air...
Pneu
"Please if your going to insult me then at-least get your facts right (I did not lock the thread)and have the balls to post with a user name rather than being another spineless sack of air...
Pneu"
There are a lot of spineless sacks of air out there Pneu ! How gutless is a person that won't even use an anon forum name.
As usual the same lowcarb antis are wrecking the forum with their antics. It was ever thus !
Keep up your great work.
Eddie
Anonymous said...
Locked by peneu? (peanut brain)
Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods.
------
Please if your going to insult me then at-least get your facts right (I did not lock the thread)and have the balls to post with a user name rather than being another spineless sack of air...
Pneu
No one said you did as a question mark was in the post.
So sorry peanut my favourite nut for likening you to Pneu, was a tad insuling I know.
Lowcarb team member said...
"Oh, what a shame for this poor person :"
Same thread different person:
"Not just low carb, if you dont increase the fat you will eat too much protein. It is often referred to as low carb but it really should be called LCHF, and some do call it that. You have to eat more fat when going low carb or the added protein can elevate the Bg. Fat does not raise bg but carb and protein does. Fat stops hunger and stops overeating, it encourages leptin. High Fat, very low carb diet reduced my A1C dramatically and caused a 35 pound drop in weight, without hunger, because I increased the fat."
http://www.diabetesdaily.com/forum/type-1-diabetes/63773-big-hike-a1c-low-carb-diet-2
Graham
7 May 2012 00:02
I'm impressed 1 poster out of 26 who says it works for them. Big deal.
A low carb diet is not necessarily low in all carbohydrate foods, simply those which disrupt blood glucose and insulin levels. Many contain large quantities of vegetables, with the exception of some starchy root vegetables.
Typically, they also include nuts and some fruits. Generally, they include the healthy natural and unprocessed foods similar to those eaten in populations where diabetes and heart disease are rarely found. In this category comes meat, fish, eggs and dairy foods including butter and cream. Vegetarian protein sources such as tofu,quorn and TVP can also be included.
The impact of particular foods on blood glucose can vary greatly between individuals and testing after meals is recommended to figure out which foods to safely include in your diet.
In broad terms, carbohydrates have a large impact on blood glucose levels, protein much less, and fats have little if any effect.
Eddie
"Locked by peneu? (peanut brain)
Jopar is actually correct. Type 2's will have exactly the same problem re the digestion of foods."
You’re still a spineless sack of air then anonymous!, go back were you belong carbos/tubolards home for invertebrates, weirdo’s, pervs,the befuddled and asylum escapees...
Graham
"I'm impressed 1 poster out of 26 who says it works for them. Big deal."
No your wrong sunshine only 15 people posted and three of them were lowcarbers, that leaves 12 and not all of them stated their regimes nor if they had tried LC.
Graham
Right I did the omelette experiment gave the nightly metformin a miss and my fasting level was 6.7 mmol/L. I had run out of cheese so went for a three egg “large” plain omelette approx 22g total protein cooked with a knob of “real butter” and a splash of olive oil.
Results using my Accu Chek Nano:
Fasting-------6.7mmol/L
30 minutes--6.7mmol/L
60-------------5.4mmol/L
120-----------4.8mmol/L
Obviously we need to factor in the meter accuracy but to me it shows T2s have a completely different response to dietary protein than T1s.
Graham
Graham,
Errrr, no...not really. And I think your mistake is that you think the conclusion from your n=1 study applies to all T2s.
I'm pretty sure everyone (well almost everyone) acknowledges that protein does have an insulin requirement, the only difference between NIDDMs and IDDMs is where the insulin comes from (pancreas or vial).
See, this is called conversation, a dialogue between human beings. At no point have I made any personal attacks against you. It's almost pleasant isn't it?
Metformin has a half life of around 6 hours, the extended release has a half life of around 18 hours. It would take 9 half lives to eliminated all but a trace amount (< 1mg) of the active ingredient of a 500mg tablet, (that's around 54 hours for standard and 160 hours for the extended release form).
As one of the effects of Metformin is to reduce the amount of glucose produced by the liver, one explanation for the conclusion one could infer from your n=1 study is that the Metformin floating around your system prevented your liver from producing enough glucose to affect the measurement of your meter.
In a lab based study of course your meter would have been calibrated against a glucose solution and the amount of Metformin still present would be better understood. There are also a number of factors which affect the quality of a reading from a BG monitor including (but not restricted to) ambient temperature, cleanliness, sample size (ooh errr), humidity, and test strip age. All of which would be better understood in a lab study.
So, congratulations for conducting your very own n=1 study, but I fail to understand how you can apply your findings to the T2 population in general - most of whom will be on different management regimes than you.
"Obviously we need to factor in the meter accuracy but to me it shows T2s have a completely different response to dietary protein than T1s."
Obviously your clocks work differently to everyone elses 120 mins = 2 hours. Jopar and co are talking about 4- 8 hours when the protien hits the system.
Try looking up pizza effect.
"See, this is called conversation, a dialogue between human beings. At no point have I made any personal attacks against you. It's almost pleasant isn't it?"
How will Graham know your a human being, and how also when your posting as anonymous can he have a meaningful dialogue with you,or indeed come to the conclusion you have made no personal attacks against him?
LCF
Hi Tubs
Nice to see you over here again. I am deeply impressed with your comments, half life of this, half life of that, are you a rocket scientist ? We haven’t got your brains Tubs. We thought doing away with the unnecessary foods, that lead to our diabetes, and if left uncontrolled lead to continued obesity and life threatening complications, was a straight forward option. If we had your intellect we would be tucking into lots of toast and biccies. I agree Grahams little study was deeply flawed. He did not check wind speed and direction, or whether an albatross had been seen in the north that day. But let’s cut to the chase. We are fully aware re the properties of Metformin, and as so many lowcarbers know, Metformin has only a small, but at times significant roll in the BG numbers obtained. I am glad you took in my comments on the old forum, re the shortfalls in a mass produced BG meter. Can you remember, I contacted Roche, and they informed me at low BG numbers, the best we can expect is an accuracy of plus or minus half a point, we had an argument over the matter if you recall. So, we all know BG meters are not the last word in accuracy, and we all know about the so called pizza effect. The thread you have commented was based on Jopar’s statement, made to a non meds, type two lowcarber.
“If you eating a high fat content, or something like Pasta, Rice Pizza, pastry etc, then these foods can still be impacting on the blood glucose hours later, so at the 1 hour, 2 hour mark everything longs fine, 3 or 4 hours it raises the BG…”
Even you can see why people far more knowledgeable than Jopar queried that one. Lowcarbers don’t suffer the pizza effect very often if at all, because they will not be eating foods like ‘Pasta, Rice Pizza, pastry’ that may be slowed down during digestion by the fat content of a meal. That brings us onto ‘everything looks fine at two hours’ As others said, for the majority of non med type two’s they will not have safe BG numbers at one or two hours, after consuming Pasta, Rice Pizza, pastry, admittedly they may not have non diabetic numbers at four hours, but almost all, true lowcarbers with good control, will return to pre food levels within two hours. We have queried Daisies cut and paste job re BG numbers re time and food types, on more than one occasion, as being flawed. I appreciate Ken wrote the original, which goes some way to explain the situation.
Just for the record, we have never said protein requires no insulin response, but the BG raising ability of carbs goes way beyond protein. Fat the science tells us has little if any effect on BG’s, unless eaten with the kind of carb intake the likes of you and the Jopar’s of this world consume. Jopar was correct in stating, a very high carb meal taken with fat, can cause raised BG numbers for many hours for some diabetics. But for a well controlled lowcarber, the problem never arises. After four years, of spending most of her life logged into the forum, Jopar should have known this. But as so often the case with the few remaining antis, it was mission accomplished, thread locked.
Why are you and other antis, so jealous of people, who with self discipline and trust in their weighing scales, trust in their BG meters and blood tests, have controlled their weight and hold non diabetic numbers by way of nil/minimal medication ? To be blunt Tubs, you and Jopar are not exactly paragons of self control and good health are you.
Over to you Tubs
Eddie
I see the obese one is posting on his cesspit of a blog.
"Carb O'Phile8 May 2012 21:18
Probably both, with a smidgin of bad temper thrown in"
Even as an anon, he fears to tread over here again.You have lost Tubs !
Eddie
Graham,
“Errrr, no...not really. And I think your mistake is that you think the conclusion from your n=1 study applies to all T2s.,
I should think most T2s managing on diet or diet and metformin will have a similar improved glucose response to protein.”
“I'm pretty sure everyone (well almost everyone) acknowledges that protein does have an insulin requirement, the only difference between NIDDMs and IDDMs is where the insulin comes from (pancreas or vial)”.
Errrr, actually it’s a big difference T1s can match their insulin to food intake I can’t.
“See, this is called conversation, a dialogue between human beings. At no point have I made any personal attacks against you. It's almost pleasant isn't it?”
As LCF said without putting a name to your comment how do I know you have not made personal attacks against me? not that I give a damn mind you it’s like water of a ducks back to me.
See, this is called a conversation, a dialogue between Graham and a nameless individual who may or may not have something to hide, I don’t find that pleasant at all.
Kind Regards
Graham
tubolard said...
"As one of the effects of Metformin is to reduce the amount of glucose produced by the liver, one explanation for the conclusion one could infer from your n=1 study is that the Metformin floating around your system prevented your liver from producing enough glucose to affect the measurement of your meter."
Wow I'll go to the foot of our stairs that’s amazing, absolutely stunning I didn’t realise the potency of metformin, sorry tubs you old pedant that was a tongue in cheek remark of course! Fact is before I ever took met a protein breakfast still had the same effect albeit from a slightly higher fasting level, carbohydrates have the opposite effect even one slice of your Toast would see me above fasting BG at one and two hours.
Graham
"Obviously your clocks work differently to everyone elses 120 mins = 2 hours. Jopar and co are talking about 4- 8 hours when the protien hits the system.
Try looking up pizza effect."
Still waiting for the Pizza effect, BG was still stable no unexpected highs after 24 hours! should really have gone to Pizza Express I suppose.
Graham
"
In a lab based study of course your meter would have been calibrated against a glucose solution and the amount of Metformin still present would be better understood. There are also a number of factors which affect the quality of a reading from a BG monitor including (but not restricted to) ambient temperature, cleanliness, sample size (ooh errr), humidity, and test strip age. All of which would be better understood in a lab study."
WTF carbo are you suggesting testing is a waste of time unless done under lab conditions. This was not a clinical trial so why get your knickers in a twist.
Carbo likes to make everything complicated. I think he believes bullshit baffles brains, besides his high tech jargon makes him look good. The concept of not eating the foods that lead to elevated BG numbers and obesity goes over his head. He talks the talk quite well though.
Eddie
More wise!!!! words from jopar.
"As to Bernstein, spends too much time on case studies and the caveman to underpin his theories..."
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=29219&start=15#p273197
"More wise!!!! words from jopar."
She's Away with the Fairies is jopar...
Graham
Another daily dose of Jopar steam-trolling into an argument that she knows nothing about, and making a complete and utter fool of herself:
Jopar on Ketosis
Did she actually used to work for the NHS?
Hi Felix
Thanks for you comment. I had to edit part of it, we don't want to drop down to Carbo's level although you may well be right. I will be commenting on the demented penguin later.
Eddie
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