Over the last four years over at diabetes.co.uk there have been countless lowcarb arguments. Hundreds of threads involving hundreds of people. Hundreds have left the forum, either banned or got worn down listening to the same small band of antis turning almost every carb discussion into a heated argument. The arguments have ranged from, is lowcarbing safe to is lowcarbing sustainable etc. etc.. The lowcarb argument has a new twist. Almost everyone wants to be a lowcarber, who would have ever thought that. 50 carbs per day is about the limit for most genuine low carbers, but that number has gone out of the window at d.co.uk. One member stated yesterday “I now eat between 80 - 150g of carbs a day, I no longer count them so that is a guestimate, but I do call myself a low carber” As I said earlier, almost everyone wants to be in the lowcarb club. How any straight thinking person describes themselves as a low carber, on that carb intake beggars belief. I can see why almost anyone would want to be in the lowcarb club, because for four years almost all the good news regarding blood glucose control, lipid improvement, weight loss and medication reduction has been achieved by lowcarbers. I pray that 150 carbs per day, for a lowcarber does not become the norm at d.co.uk, if it does, then the lowcarb success rate will go down hill fast.
There are no guarantees in this life, and that is certainly the case with diabetes, there are some constants. As I said earlier, hundreds of threads involving hundreds of people. Hundreds have left the forum, either banned or got worn down listening to the same small band of antis, turning almost every carb discussion into a heated argument. All that time, all those people, most of them gone, but one constant remains, the remnants of Kens clique. Noblehead, Sid Bonkers, phoenix and catherinecherub. None of them lowcarbers, all staunchly low fat. All happy with their healthcare professionals, all have access to test strips, two on insulin, one on a nil meds low gi diet, and one, well, I don’t know what he is on, I doubt whether he knows most of the time. My point, why have these four individuals, made the vilification of lowcarb and high fat a full time job. I fully appreciate that lowcarbing is not the only way to control diabetes. These people have proved it. They all have good stats and are doing very well, and I hope that continues. The reasons I find these people appalling, is their attitude to lowcarbing and high fat methods of diabetes control.They have all the advantages in their control of diabetes. Knowledge, good healthcare professionals, test strips, insulin and one on a pump. Others have nothing to help them. Medication withdrawn or withheld, no insulin, no insulin pump and no prescribed test strips. With the demise of the NHS as we know it, the situation for most diabetics will get worse. For the majority of diabetics, the DUK and NHS dietary advice is pitiful, as evidenced by the appalling diabetes statistics each year. No progress is being made, last week DUK stated strokes and kidney failure was on the increase, the NHS and DUK have failed completely to reduce complications and HbA1c numbers for many.
Lowcarbing is, and will remain, the salvation for so many diabetics. Why four individuals have made it their life’s work, to confuse and disrupt, is utterly beyond me. What if I am wrong, what if lowcarbing and a higher fat diet is not the way to go ? Does my opinion matter a jot. In the big scheme, no, I am but one voice. But over the years, I have heard thousands of voices at d.co.uk, and they are telling it load and clear, lowcarbing has been their salvation. I have yet to see a post stating ‘I have increased my carbs and medication and it has improved my BG, my lipids, my weight, my anything’ No doubt some will see this post as bullying, but the four named people can come here and discuss the issues raised. They can have a free voice over here, that was denied to many in Kens days, and the clique added and abetted him at every opportunity. Come over and tell me how a type two diabetic can control their diabetes, with nil or minimal meds, and in many cases not even a prescribed test strip, other than lowcarbing. Tell me how cholesterol ratios can be improved, blood glucose reduced to non diabetic, blood pressure reduced, fatty livers healed, weight reduced to a safe level and more. I have waited for answers from antis for nearly four years, I am still waiting.
Blame it on Grazer.
He calls himself a low carber on 150-180 per day and seems to have an audience. They are all low carbers now even if they only eat just below the RDA. The supposed LC community there seem to have dug their own grave.
Here is your answer Eddie, you have been mentioned.
Bonkers said "I dont want anyones diet rammed down my throat, well not all the time I am able to chew for myself thank you very much"
Is this the same Bonkers thats continually pushing his fist full of carbs and 16g cornflakes at every opportunity, he talks about lowcarbers being fanatical perhaps he should look in the mirror were he will see the biggest fanatic of them all! and I would add he's the biggest shit stirrer on the forum.
You could ask the antis what they're trying to achieve, but I don't think even they know, if they're honest. When was the last time that you read a posting by Sid or one of his ilk which actually had a point to it? If you examine the majority of posts from the antis, you'll find it's mostly just bluster. There's plenty of waffle about what they're NOT prepared to do to control their diabetes, but very little in the way of useful advice on what they ARE prepared to do themselves or suggest for others.
In short, you will know them by the fruitage of their postings.
There have been many, many grateful posts thanking the low-carbers for their suggestions and their help in turning lives around (a term that I don't use lightly), but I've yet to see a post gratefully thanking the antis for all their bitching about how they don't and won't low-carb.
I'm still chuckling at the thought of Bonkers trying to outsmarting a fish:
It must been quite a battle of wits.
Still, you have to give it to him, on a diet of just cornflakes and celebrations, he doesn't look a day over 107.
Been looking at the thread - Who has had depression due to low carbing? - it was going very well with a lot of positive comments from low carbers who had not experienced depression while on a low carb diet. That is until we had a totally off topic comment from carbsrok regarding a rodent study of course then all the antis pitched with nobhead leading the charge followed by phoenix, catherinecherub and Sid Bonkers with his rabid rants.
"The supposed LC community there seem to have dug their own grave"
We are all heading for the grave, but the lowcarbers will be a while in getting there. Good food and exercise will always beat a handful of drugs and a diet based on carbs !
"Here is your answer Eddie, you have been mentioned"
From Pneu at d.co.uk
"by no means 'fanatical' in the way that Eddie and the like were"
I have great respect for Pneu, anyone that can hold HbA1c of 5.2 has to be respected. Fanatical, too right I am, and proud to be.
It was lowcarb fanatics such as Fergus and Bernstein that turned my diabetes around, mine and countless others. Possibly even Pneu's.
That is until we had a totally off topic comment from carbsrok regarding a rodent study of course then all the antis pitched with nobhead leading the charge followed by phoenix, catherinecherub and Sid Bonkers with his rabid rants.
Ah, my old friend carbsrock aka SarahQ, another disgraced and fired d.co.uk forum mod. The person also known at tubolards forum as SueM. The person that was going to burn Bernsteins books for winter fuel and states, a balanced diet is a cake in each hand.
An arch lowcarb anti and deadbeat.
If the diabetic population of the UK was:
(a) Type 1 and on a pump regime
(b) Living a sedentary lifestyle inputting 1000 – 1250 calories per day
(c) Appreciative of a moderator’s delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and omnipotence
then the posts of the clique would have some relevance.
However, since this is clearly not the case then the qualifications have to be borne in mind when reading the contributions of the following posters:
(d) A Type 1, on a pump regime, will have little or no experience to offer a Type 2 diabetic attempting to control her blood glucose levels with little or no medication
(e) A Type 2, inputting 1000 – 1250 calories per day, sat at a computer 24 hours per day proclaiming the benefits of portion control, will have little or no experience to offer a Type 2 diabetic requiring 1800 -2500 calories per day and attempting to control her blood glucose levels with little or no medication
(f) A Type 2, with delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and omnipotence, well the clue is in the phrase delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and omnipotence
I've checked out the 'Sid versus the fish' photo. One of them is certainly looking a bit green around the gills.
I'm still chuckling at the thought of Bonkers trying to outsmarting a fish"
Sid is probably a decent bloke, but shot away and on a different planet to most in control lowcarbers.
Phoenix is highly intelligent, and should, and I am sure know better. But hey, she is addicted to carbs and med's and a Hope Warshaw follower, who reckons diabetics should be on 40 to 60% carbs and use lots of drugs.
She has all the advantages, but loves winding up, and spreading fear to those who don't even have access to a test strip. The most slippery anti without a doubt. The bright people see through her, but how much damage has she done to the newbies and poorly informed ?
I think you're right. Phoenix is the only one of the antis who can't blame their utterings on ignorance - she actually has the intelligence to know better.
If these four had a job or any kind of life they would not be posting their drivel every day of the week. They never stop. All day long every day the same old crap.
"Phoenix is highly intelligent, and should, and I am sure know better. But hey, she is addicted to carbs and med's "
Yep very intelligent, she uses insulin. The reason being she has type 1.5 diabetes which is autoimmune. So no insulin no life.
Phoenix also at the age of almost 60 runs marathons. I bet she's a lot fitter than you Eddie. The last photo of you would suggest you are not exactly built to undertake such feats.
"Phoenix is highly intelligent, and should, and I am sure know better. But hey, she is addicted to carbs and med's and a Hope Warshaw follower, who reckons diabetics should be on 40 to 60% carbs and use lots of drugs."
Actually Eddie it's 45 to 60% carbs.
One of the comments from phoenix (Type 1.5)on the carbsanity blog.
"I don't think any of the US bloggers have sunk so low as the heading on a blog from the UK 'Hope Warshaw more dangerous than Osama Bin Laden ?'. I could write a lot more about the author but I don't think he deserves the publicity."
Check out the carb contents of phoenix's rucksack here;
That's great, because there are a lot of type 1.5 marathon-running pumpers on the D.co.uk forum.
And these things have to be divided between OH and I.
Tent Mckinley moonlight 3.2 kg************* Campin Gaz 206 stove with bottle
2 person cook set *************************Wooden spoon/spatula
Plastic egg cups ***************************Egg container with 6 eggs
Tiny salt pepper **************************Small bags with spices/herbs
Dehydrated curry for emergency ***********350g packet wholemeal wraps(If we can't get bread)
Teabags,coffee sachets, sweetner ************100g Dried milk in ziplock
50g Choc drink powder in ziplock************ 200g Muesli in ziplock
200g wholemeal pasta *********************Packet parmesan
Cereal barres ***************************** Matches/lighter
I've checked and as that's divided by 2 what's your problem?
It's not a day's worth of food is it?
There is much to be admired in Phoenix. Good control, fit enough to run marathons, and a pretty fair concertina player. I am told she is a qualified psychologist. How she manages her diabetes and her carb intake means little to me.
As Carbo says, “we must celebrate the individual” I’ll go for that. I appreciate she must inject insulin. The big question of course is, why does she want all diabetics to become high med’s users. Following her diet, almost all diabetics would require heavy duty drugs, probably insulin. Is she a shill for big pharma ? we need to be told.
One common factor among the "Clique" is the ever present fear of being afflicted by Piles. They would then, without doubt, lose the power of speech!
"I've checked and as that's divided by 2 what's your problem?
It's not a day's worth of food is it?"
Of course not there's also the bread/croissants, chocolate gateau, baked potatoes, chocolate apricots, need I go on? it's all there on her blog.
350 grams of wholemeal wraps, 200 grams of Muesli, dehydrated curry, cereal bars, 200 grams of pasta. It’s a high carb blow out for sure, and would have most lowcarbers and minimal meds users into double figurers, before you could say, ’where did that come from’ Yes, I’m quoting you phoenix re your double number BG out of the blue !
Each to their own. But why does phoenix spend so much of her life, posting negative links to all sorts of dross regarding low carb. Greed, fear and prestige are pretty big motivators. As a psychologist she must know this. I do ! But what’s the haps. Most of the people on d.co.uk have not got insulin, test strips and a pump, let alone top notch healthcare pro’s.
The time for putting the wreckers to shame at duk is well over due. Well done the people here.
Now I like this Phoenix check her out!
Nullius in verba!
"Of course not there's also the bread/croissants, chocolate gateau,"
Ah yes least we forget Hana's staple diet.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander
I don't disagree with a large amount of what is published on here, but feel I need to correct one thing.
The first poster said :-
" Anonymous said...
Blame it on Grazer.
He calls himself a low carber on 150-180 per day and seems to have an audience. They are all low carbers now even if they only eat just below the RDA. The supposed LC community there seem to have dug their own grave."
Fact is, I've NEVER called myself a low carber. I keep my HbA1c at 5.9 (probably a fair bit lower now, I'll find out soon) on 150 or more grams a day, and don't try to go lower because I have an issue with keeping my weight UP, not losing weight. I am proof that lowering carbs lowers weight, but in my case I can't afford to lose more, and just a few grams carbs less sees my weight drop again. So I settle for 5.9 (or less hopefully), but have a great deal of respect for those that can and do go lower carb than me to reach excellent figures.
But I DON'T say I'm a low carber.
Hi Grazer thanks for your comment.
We have never considered or stated you are a low carber. In fact on the Wallycorker Grazer thread we said “Grazer is not a lowcarber, but appreciates for many it is the only way to diabetic salvation” I don’t think I have misinterpreted what I feel you believe. If I have, then I will make a correction.
As an aside. Graham is one of the 10 or 20% of very slim type two diabetics. When he started low carbing he lost a lot of weight. Obviously he did not want to up the carbs, which would have raised his BG to unacceptable levels, and he was on no meds. The solution was to up the fat big time, hence he is always coming up with almond flour cake recipes. Double cream in coffee etc and he stabilised his BG and weight.
BTW anyone who thinks 150 carbs per day is low carb is Bonkers in my opinion.
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't actually referring to you,so no correction needed, but the anonymous who left the first comment which I quoted. Not important I guess, but just wanted to put the record straight.
You never misinterpreted me at all.
Twice in a day Grazer, be careful, the Muppets will be saying your a lowcarb team member next. You know how they like to lie and twist the truth. An example was the comment you commented on. I just deleted a comment asking you to comment on a clique member, these dullards never give up.
The clique posts are being used for a new retinopathy test. If you can’t see through their agenda, you clearly have a serious eye problem, either that or your as thick as a plank.
"Ah yes least we forget Hana's staple diet."
I don't think so, if she was as a type 2 she would not be getting her HbA1c consistently in the 5% range, maybe if she went on to insulin then she could eat like phoenix.
"I am proof that lowering carbs lowers weight, but in my case I can't afford to lose more, and just a few grams carbs less sees my weight drop again."
I agree with Grazer lowering carbs meant I also lost weight, my BMI was 21.8 four years ago at diagnosis it's now despite an increased calorie high fat diet 20.3, seems to me carbs are a bigger influence on weight gain than the much demonised saturated fat.
Unlike Grazer I can't increase the carbs without my BG spiralling unless I go down the increased medication route, think I'd much rather be a skinny!
"You know how they like to lie and twist the truth."
Yep thats true, some of them reckon I'm on a shed load of meds, fact is I take 1x500g metformin with a bit of supper to help with dawn P.
Eddie, being polite to a non low carber thats a first:)))))
It wont be long before Eddie starts to convert you to the dark side Grazer. Like a lamb to the slaughter in fact.
"Eddie, being polite to a non low carber thats a first:)))))
It wont be long before Eddie starts to convert you to the dark side Grazer. Like a lamb to the slaughter in fact."
As far as I can see Eddie and Co. only have a problem with anti lowcarbers, Grazer is not an anti hence the politeness. From the posts I have seen by Grazer he has a mind of his own and will not be swayed by Eddie or anyone else for that matter.
"People swallow greedily any starch-based lie that flatters them, but they sip only little by little at a
carb-free truth they find bitter."
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